Democratic Primary?

[PVVikeFan]

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You guys might wanna check for yourself- he was on active duty , he did pilot the boat and some of the missions were quite hot. Bush stayed in Texas, wonder who is dumber? Who believes anything that is written? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] PS this is a thread comment.

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He came back after LESS than 3 months pretending to be some kind of hero. He may possibly have seen a small skirmish somewhere along the way by accident. The man has never been in combat. Just like everything else in his life he doesn't have the guts for it.

I don't know anybody else that pulled a tour the way he did. The normal visit to this jungle paradise was 13 months and a few days. Come to think of it I don't remember seeing anybody else running around with a camera crew either. I must have slept more than I realized.

[R0cketer]

So I'm going to ask you, lets cut to the chase, you were there watching him, right? I mean obviously you're discounting others that were there and say completely different things, but since a few say another way, obviously the ones siding with him are just wrong, right? I mean because you know the others had no benefit for saying what they said.

Again, I say you're attacking someone for 'slacking in a job' but backing the one who didn't even go and stub his toe and go home.

By the way, where is all this film crew he had, and the film. I'd love to see it.

Call a spade a spade, you don't like him, that's great, that's fine. You don't like him because he's one of them there evil Democrats or whatever, but don't try to play the patriot game and say he was a horrible veteran, heck, wait he opposed Bush, I guess that makes him terrorist.

What makes me sick is a veteran downing another veteran, I don't care what he may or may not have done, unless he was over there shooting his own people, he was at least defending the country in a hostile environment. It's funny, we're supposed to respect the president, no matter what. I thought we were supposed to respect the Office of President. We're supposed to respect what veterans have done, but I guess that only works if they are Republican?? Come off of it.

[PVVikeFan]

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So I'm going to ask you, lets cut to the chase, you were there watching him, right? I mean obviously you're discounting others that were there and say completely different things, but since a few say another way, obviously the ones siding with him are just wrong, right? I mean because you know the others had no benefit for saying what they said.

Again, I say you're attacking someone for 'slacking in a job' but backing the one who didn't even go and stub his toe and go home.

By the way, where is all this film crew he had, and the film. I'd love to see it.

Call a spade a spade, you don't like him, that's great, that's fine. You don't like him because he's one of them there evil Democrats or whatever, but don't try to play the patriot game and say he was a horrible veteran, heck, wait he opposed Bush, I guess that makes him terrorist.

What makes me sick is a veteran downing another veteran, I don't care what he may or may not have done, unless he was over there shooting his own people, he was at least defending the country in a hostile environment. It's funny, we're supposed to respect the president, no matter what. I thought we were supposed to respect the Office of President. We're supposed to respect what veterans have done, but I guess that only works if they are Republican?? Come off of it.

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Actually I was ready to vote for the man until the truth came out. I would feel the same about anybody who did things the way he did. I guess you missed the interview with his commanding officer. And the ones with the swift boat vets. I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I just don't care much for fake "heroes". Just funny that way I guess. I have a feeling you could possibly change the way you feel about him under different circunstances.

Here is his bronze star."professionalism, great personal courage under fire, and complete dedication to duty" in rescuing, while wounded, a man overboard following a mine explosion, directing his gunners to provide supporting fire for the rescue, and towing a damaged boat to safety under enemy fire on March 13, 1969 Star url and his enlistment contract for 1966 and his for request for swiftboat duty 2/10/68 swiftboat app enlistment

[PVVikeFan]

And George W. had documents to prove he was in the Guard. Just shows anything can be faked. I don't believe either one of them. If I had been accused of things the way Kerry was by veterans I would have done anything possible to get the truth out. He didn't. Could it be he didn't want the truth to come out? Same with Bush. Same with Slick Willy. Same with a couple of Kennedys. Just being politicians I guess. At least Kerry did hook up with the ketchup queen. She may be ugly but the bank account looked pretty good to him. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Snopes on the myth Kerry was a soldier snopes urban legends Kerry formally enlists in the U.S. Navy.

August 22, 1966 ? Kerry reports for Naval Officer Candidate School at the U.S. Naval Training Center in Newport, Rhode Island.

December 16, 1966 ? Kerry receives commission as an Ensign.

January 3, 1967 ? Kerry reports for duty at the Naval Schools Command at Treasure Island (CA)-Takes 10 week Officer Damage Control Course.

March 22, 1967 ? Reports to U.S. Fleet Anti-Air Warfare Training Center (CA). Receives training as a Combat Information Center Watch Officer.

June 8, 1967 ? Kerry reports to USS Gridley-serves in several capacities.

February 9, 1968 ? USS Gridley departs for a Western Pacific (WESTPAC) deployment, to engage in operations in support of the Vietnam War. Ship spends time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam, at Subic Bay in the Philippines and in Wellington, New Zealand.

February 10, 1968 ? Kerry requests duty in Vietnam He lists his first preference for a position as an officer in charge of a Swift Boat (designated PCF for Patrol Craft Fast), his second as an officer in a patrol boat (designated PBR, for Patrol Boat River) squadron.

May 27, 1968 ? USS Gridley sets sail for the US.

June 6, 1968 ? Kerry arrives in Long Beach the day after Senator Robert F. Kennedy is killed in Los Angeles.

June 16, 1968 ? Kerry promoted to Lieutenant, Junior Grade.

July 20, 1968 ? Kerry leaves Gridley for specialized training at the Naval Amphibious Base in Coronado, CA in preparation for service as commander of a Swift Boat. These unarmored, but heavily armed, fifty foot aluminum hulled patrol boats depended on speed and agility when engaging the enemy.

November 17, 1968 ? Upon completion of his training, Kerry reports for duty to Coastal Squadron 1, Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam.

December 1968 through January 1969 ? Kerry commands PCF-44.

December 2, 1968 ? Kerry experiences first intense combat; receives first combat related injury.

December 6, 1968 ? Kerry moved to Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island.

December 13, 1968 ? Kerry moved to Coastal Division 13, Cam Ranh Bay.

December 24, 1968 ? Kerry involved in combat during the Christmas Eve truce of 1968. The truce was three minutes old when mortar fire exploded around Lieutenant Kerry and his five-man crew. Reacting swiftly, John Kerry and his crew silenced the machine gun nest.

January 22, 1969 ? Kerry and other Swift boat commanders travel to Saigon for meeting with Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, Commander Naval Forces Vietnam (COMNAVFORV), and Gen. Creighton Abrams, Commander United States Military Assistance Command Vietnam (COMUSMACV).

Late January, 1969 ? Kerry joined his 5 man crew on PCF-94.

Late January through Early March, 1969 ? Starting in late January 1969, this crew completed 18 missions over an intense and dangerous 48 days, almost all of them in the dense jungles of the Mekong Delta. Kerry's crew included engineman Eugene Thorson, later an Iowa cement mason; David Alston, then the crew's only African-American and today a minister in South Carolina; petty officer Del Sandusky of Illinois; rear gunner and quartermaster Michael Medeiros of California; and the late Tom Belodeau, who joined the crew fresh out of Chelmsford High School in Massachusetts. Others rotated in and out of the crew. The most intense action came during an extraordinary eight days of more than 10 firefights, remembered by Kerry's crew as the "days of hell."

February 20, 1969 ? Kerry and crew involved in combat; Kerry receives second combat injury ? Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh.

February 28, 1969 ? For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong insurgents in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 28 February 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of a three-boat mission. As the force approached the target area on the narrow [censored] Cung River, all units came under intense automatic weapons and small arms fire from an entrenched enemy force less than fifty-feet away. Unhesitatingly, Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry ordered his boat to attack as all units opened fire and beached directly in front of the enemy ambushers. The daring and courageous tactic surprised the enemy and succeeded in routing a score of enemy soldiers. The PCF gunners captured many enemy weapons in the battle that followed. On a request from U.S. Army advisors ashore, Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry ordered PCFs 94 and 23 further up river to suppress enemy sniper fire. After proceeding approximately eight hundred yards, the boats again were taken under fire from a heavily foliated area and B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF-94; with utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only ten feet from the VC rocket position, and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy. Upon sweeping the area an immediate search uncovered an enemy rest and supply area which was destroyed. The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission. His actions were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

March 13, 1969 ? For heroic achievement while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong communist aggressors in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 13 March 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94, one of five boats conducting a SEA Lords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry is authorized to wear the Combat "V"?.

March 17, 1969 ? The policy of Coastal Squadron One, the swift boat command, was to send home any individual who is wounded three times in action. After sustaining his third wound from enemy action n Vietnam, Kerry was granted relief under this policy.

Early April, 1969 ? Kerry departs Vietnam.

April 11, 1969 ? Kerry reports for duty at the Military Sea Transportation Service, U.S. Atlantic Fleet in Brooklyn, NY.

January 1, 1970 ? Kerry promoted to (full) Lieutenant.

January 3, 1970 ? Kerry requests discharge.

March 1, 1970 ? Kerry's date of separation from Active Duty.

April 29, 1970 ? Kerry listed as Registrant who has completed service.

[Source: Boston Globe, "John Kerry, the Making of a Candidate"?, 6/15/03-6/21/03; "Tour of Duty"? by Douglas Brinkley, Published by William Morrow 2003; Selective Service System, National Headquarter]

Swiftboat vets got the letter to prove Bush was run out of the guard to run daddy's campaign. Big deal. It is just odd how one item is so imoprtant till it comes up to be untrue. People just don't check close enough.

[R0cketer]

Dude, you was about to vote for him till the truth came out. You need to pay more attention to find the truth sometime. If there is an article about Phil Robbins not actually coaching his teams, his assistants doing it, and you have some players standing up and saying Phil Robbins never coached me, never coached me, etc. And then the article is paid for by Former Vikings for Justice, you might accept that all those guys had courage to stand out and speak against some great wrong done by Phil Robbins. Or you may dig a bit deeper and see that the ad was paid for by the Gate City Boosters club. You might find the articles coming out later that say hey I was on the Powell Valley football team and Phil Robbins coached me himself daily by several players. Now then, which would you believe, the ones who have a purpose one way, or the ones who have a purpose the other.

Like I said, yes the swift boats group was against him. However at least one of the swift boat leaders was a recognized GOP leader. That is Republican. Imagine that, a Republican or maybe a group of them coming out against a Democrat and questioning them. There was quite a few swift boat members who came out and said what they were saying was a load of hogwash that John Kerry did all, including the man who said he saved his life, but I guess since you're neither Democratic or Republican that makes you someone who believes the first thing you hear? I mean I did hear the interviews that downed him but I also heard the ones the other way, obviously you didn't.

Come off of it. I have no reason to change the way I feel about him. I don't like him. That being said, I think he was done a diservice, that his service record was questioned and damaged because someone wanted him to not win.

Answer me this, you have people who say he did bad, you have people who said he did good. You complain about their being cameras around him, so if the cameras caught the rescue, it would have been rigged, right? And if the cameras didn't catch it, it never happened, right? No matter if 20 people said it did, and 20 said it didn't. If I'm not mistaken one of the guys who was in the swift boat video appologized that he was mislead what he said was made to look John Kerry bad. I mean like I said, there are 2 different sides to most things, but look deeper sometimes. If some Vikings for Justice group comes up and starts downing Phil Robbins, I'm sure that at lot of people will believe what is said, no matter if another group comes up and totally refutes it, we'll believe what we want to believe. If we've liked Phil Robbins, then the Vikings for Justice group is full of it. If we don't like him, they speak the truth and the group defending Phil would be nothing but a big bunch of Homers. Same thing here. You had a bunch against Kerry, you had a bunch for Kerry. If you dig, you see that group against him was funded by GOP mostly. When the second group comes along you could decide they were just being Democratic homers or they were trying to get the truth out there. What you view and decide mostly comes back to what your party support was in the first place or what you think of him, not anything presented.

[imported_biggamesjames]

"What makes me sick is a veteran downing another veteran, I don't care what he may or may not have done"

Funny you should say that because thats exactly what Kerr-dog has done ever since he left Nam. I'm not downing his service, I appreciate the fact that he went over there and I don't know what he did or didn't do while he was there because I wasn't with him...but at the same time it would have been better for the country and all the troops if he would've never went because of the way he acted when he got back. He disgraced his fellow veterans with his actions and thats why you won't see many military folks backing him. If you are going to go over there and then backstab all the guys you served with when you get back then just don't go...go to Canada or something. I would have respected him more if he would have been a consience objector.

Its also interesting that you don't like Jim Webb with him being one of the more respectable candidates to come out of the democratic party in quite sometime. As much as I support George Allen I am considering voting for Webb. He appears to be an excellent candidate.

[PVVikeFan]

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"What makes me sick is a veteran downing another veteran, I don't care what he may or may not have done"

Funny you should say that because thats exactly what Kerr-dog has done ever since he left Nam. I'm not downing his service, I appreciate the fact that he went over there and I don't know what he did or didn't do while he was there because I wasn't with him...but at the same time it would have been better for the country and all the troops if he would've never went because of the way he acted when he got back. He disgraced his fellow veterans with his actions and thats why you won't see many military folks backing him. If you are going to go over there and then backstab all the guys you served with when you get back then just don't go...go to Canada or something. I would have respected him more if he would have been a consience objector.

Its also interesting that you don't like Jim Webb with him being one of the more respectable candidates to come out of the democratic party in quite sometime. As much as I support George Allen I am considering voting for Webb. He appears to be an excellent candidate.

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Thank you.
My opinion of Kerry has nothig to do with politics. It has everything to do with what he did during and immediately after his time in the service. Everybody has the right to his or her own opinion, and I think I have earned the right to have mine. My personal opinion of Kerry is he ranks right up there with Hanoi Jane and Michael Moore. Political party has nothing to do with it. And NO, I am NOT a Bush fan either.